English version below.

Peux-tu te présenter ?

Je m’appelle Arman [1], je viens d’Afghanistan et j’ai 25 ans.

Comment était ta vie en Afghanistan ?

En Afghanistan je vivais avec ma famille et on vivait plutôt bien. Avec mon frère on habitait dans la capitale, Kaboul, et notre famille était dans un village pas loin. J’étais très occupé ; j’ai étudié l’anglais pendant un an, puis fait une licence en gestion commerciale pendant 5 semestre. Je travaillais aussi.

Les problèmes ont commencé parce que mon frère travaillait avec des étrangers, avec l’armée américaine. Au village, on recevait des lettres de menace, qui disaient que mon frère devait arrêter de travailler avec les Américains et me demandaient de les rejoindre, de les aider. Ils voulaient que je leur ramène des étrangers pour pouvoir les kidnapper. Ils avaient des espions qui enquêtaient sur moi et sur ma famille.

Comment t’es-tu préparé au voyage ?

Tout s’est passé très vite. Je suis parti en un ou deux jours. Je devais partir.

Mais je suppose que ça doit coûter de l’argent, comment t’as fait ?

Comme je vous ai dit, on vivait bien. On n’avait aucun problème d’argent.

As-tu eu besoin d’un passeport ?

Bien sûr. Je suis parti d’Afghanistan avec un passeport et un visa iranien. Je me suis rendu en Iran en avion. Là-bas, j’ai déchiré et jeté mon passeport, puis j’ai marché jusqu’en Turquie, illégalement.

J’avais pas le choix, si j’avais postulé en ligne ça aurait pris trop de temps. Comme vous le savez, le passeport afghan n’a pas une grande valeur, ça donne pas accès à beaucoup de visas. C’est pour ça que de l’Iran à l’Allemagne j’ai du voyager illégalement.

Avec ton frère ?

Non, je suis parti tout seul. Mon frère a une toute autre histoire, il vit aux États-Unis maintenant. Mais ça prendrait trop de temps de vous raconter.

Que savais-tu de l’Europe avant de venir ?

J’en avais pas mal entendu parler car on a des proches, des ami-es qui y vivent. Mais on se sentait pas trop concernés avant d’avoir ces problèmes. J’ai envisagé le voyage lorsque je n’avais déjà plus le choix. Il n’y avait d’ailleurs aucune autre alternative dans les pays voisins, comme par exemple le Pakistan. Je m’attendais à pouvoir gérer ma vie comme je le souhaitais en Europe, et pouvoir venir en aide à ma famille. Finalement, ça n’a rien à voir avec ce que j’imaginais.

Je suis resté une semaine en Iran, où j’ai souffert de n’avoir nul part où dormir. Puis on a fait 8 heures de voiture pour se rapprocher de la Turquie. Là, on a marché 12 à 13 heures de nuit dans les montagnes, dans les paysages déserts, sans croiser ni humains ni animaux. A la frontière turque, une voiture nous a emmené-es à Istanbul ou nous sommes resté-e-s 3 ou 4 jours avant de nous rendre en Bulgarie.

On a du traverser la jungle entre la Turquie à la Bulgarie, ça nous a pris 4 jours et 3 nuits. On devait se cacher car s’ils nous voyaient, ils nous auraient mis en prison ou nous auraient ramener de là où on venait. On traversait donc illégalement cette jungle vers la Bulgarie. Le trajet était beaucoup plus long que prévu : on nous avait menti. Nous n’avions ni eau ni nourriture, et avons même fini par boire de l’eau sale.

Quand on est arrivé-e-s en Bulgarie, on s’est retrouvé-es dans une petite pièce sombre avec 40 personnes. On ne savait pas exactement ce qu’on faisait là et on n’avait pas le droit d’aller et venir librement. Quand on sortait, on se faisait contrôler par la police. On savait qu’on devait faire attention à ce qu’ils ne prennent pas nos empreintes, mais manque de chance la police a débarqué dès la première nuit. Ils ont arrêté tout le monde puis nous ont emmenés au poste. Ils voulaient nous forcer à donner nos empreintes. Je les ai supplié mais en réponse ils m’ont demandé de l’argent. J’ai dit « combien vous voulez ? » Ils m’ont répondu : « Tout ce que t’as. » On leur a donné 500 dollars et ils nous a laissé partir.

Mais en repartant on s’est fait contrôler par une autre voiture, et cette fois-ci on avait plus d’argent. On est resté-es deux nuits en garde à vue où ils nous traitaient brutalement, frappaient sur les portes en pleine nuit, ne nous donnaient pas à manger. Puis ils nous ont emmené dans un camp. Ca ressemblait à une prison, on ne pouvait pas sortir de la chambre. C’était un bâtiment de trois étages, chacun contenant 300 ou 400 personnes, que des réfugié-es. Syrien-nes, Afghan-es, Pakistanais-es...

Tu savais ce qu’ils te voulaient ?

Ils voulaient juste qu’on donne nos empreintes. On refusait alors ils nous redemandaient chaque jours. Même si on ne faisait que traverser leur pays, ils faisaient pression pour qu’on donne nos empreintes.

On a souffert pendant deux semaines. On était comme des prisonnier-es, à faire la queue pendant près d’une heure pour un bol de soupe et une tranche de pain. J’ai perdu beaucoup de poids. Ils nous prenaient, nous giflaient, nous frappaient, parfois dans des chambres noires à l’abri des regards. Une fois ils m’ont frappé au visage. Au bout d’un moment, avec quelques autres on a décidé de donner nos empreintes, sans quoi ils nous auraient jamais laissé partir.

Après ils nous ont donnés une petite carte d’identité, une carte temporaire qui durait un mois, qui nous permettrait de circuler dans Sofia. On a pris quelques jours pour se remettre de ce qu’il venait de se passer. On a marché 14 heures dans la nuit avec 40 autres personnes pour parvenir en Serbie.

On est resté quelques jours en Serbie où la police s’est montrée correcte, et on a rapidement trouvé un moyen de continuer vers la Hongrie.

On a marché vers la Hongrie pendant une nuit entière, entrecoupée de pauses lorsqu’on apercevait la police. Une nuit on a même aperçu un lion [2], à quelques mètres de nous. On a vraiment eu très peur, on a rebroussé chemin pendant 2 ou 3 heures pour s’en éloigner ! Faire tout ce chemin et finir par se faire bouffer par un lion ! (rires). Ensuite on a repris notre route avec un petit groupe de personnes que j’ai rencontrées en Bulgarie et en qui je pouvais avoir confiance.

En Hongrie j’avais le même sentiment de peur qu’en Bulgarie. Je vérifiais toujours autour de moi s’il n’y avait pas un policier, des gens, n’importe qui ! On est resté-es une semaine en Hongrie, on a dormi dans une station de métro. On a reçu de l’aide, de gens de la croix rouge, de passant-es, mais jamais du gouvernement hongrois.

Depuis la Bulgarie, je n’étais plus contrôlé, en raison de mon physique : je ressemble un peu à un-e Français-e. La police contrôle suivant l’apparence physique, le visage…

J’ai donc pu rester en Hongrie sans donner mes empreintes. Ensuite on a pris le bus vers l’Autriche pour rejoindre l’Allemagne. Une connaissance m’avait conseillé de venir la voir en Allemagne, et m’avait dit qu’elle pourrait m’aider.

Au début de mon voyage j’avais pensé me rendre en Suède, car un proche à moi vit là bas. Mais lorsque nous étions dans le camp en Bulgarie, j’ai rencontré des personnes qui avaient été expulsées de Suède en Bulgarie, à cause de leurs empreintes. J’ai donc laissé tomber cette idée.

Pendant que nous étions dans la prison, on se posait la question entre nous, sur nos parcours. Alors ces choses devenaient claires pour moi. Les gens disaient « L’Allemagne c’est bien, ils n’expulsent pas les migrants, et peut-être que tes empreintes seront effacées ». Alors j’ai décidé d’aller à Francfort et j’ai demandé l’asile là-bas. Pendant 45 jours, je suis resté dans le gros camp américain de Giessen, près de Francfort. Je suis resté 45 jours dans ce lieu composé d’immenses tentes, dans lesquelles vivaient environ 6000 personnes réfugiées. Quand on est entrés dans le camp on a vu qu’il n’y avait pas de place, pas de chambre dans lesquelles on pouvait rester. Seulement une immense tente qui accueillaient 200 ou 300 personnes. Et il y avait plus de 100 tentes comme ça. Donc on est resté-es seulement 45 jours.

Pourquoi t’es pas resté chez ton ami ?

J’étais obligé d’être dans le camp pour faire ma demande d’asile. Je suis arrivé juste avant le grand « accueil » de 2015, lorsque l’Allemagne a ouvert ses frontières. Au bout d’un moment j’ai vu toutes ces personnes qui arrivaient. Je me suis demandé ce qu’il se passait et c’est dans les journaux que j’ai compris. J’ai vu des gens qui sont arrivés d’Afghanistan avec seulement 200 dollars alors que moi j’en avais dépensé 15 000 : j’étais choqué !

Après 45 jours, ils nous ont transférés vers une autre ville où nous avions une chambre. C’était comme un petit studio dans lequel j’ai passé 16 mois. J’ai attendu longtemps avant d’avoir un premier entretien et la prise d’empreinte. Les Syrien-nes recevaient plus d’aide et d’attention que les Afghans, donc on a attendu 8 mois avant qu’on s’occupe de nous.

Parce que tu voulais qu’on te prenne les empreintes ?

Oui, puisque j’étais dans une procédure d’asile en Allemagne. Après 8 mois, j’ai eu droit à un court entretien. Je leur ai raconté les mêmes chose que ce que je vous raconte là, toute la vérité. Je leur ai dit que j’avais donné mes empreintes en Bulgarie, mais que je n’avais pas demandé l’asile là-bas. Ils ont pris mes empreintes et m’ont dit que je recevrais une lettre. Après un ou deux mois, j’ai reçu une lettre qui me disait que j’étais dubliné [3] et que je devais être expulsé en Bulgarie. Donc il a fallu 8 mois pour qu’ils prennent mes empreintes, et 2 de plus pour qu’ils me donnent une réponse.

Pendant 4 mois, je parlais à toutes les personnes que je rencontrais pour leur demander ce que je devais faire. J’ai contacté des avocat-es. Je ne voulais pas, je ne veux pas retourner en Bulgarie.

Tu dis souvent « on », « on a fait ça ». As-tu quitté l’Afghanistan seul, as-tu rencontré des personnes sur la route ? Peux-tu nous parler de la solidarité entre toi et les autres réfugié-es ?

Je suis parti seul d’Afghanistan. Mais dès le départ je n’étais plus seul. Il y avait 20 à 30 autres personnes avec moi qui avaient le même objectif. Nous avions un seul et même objectif, nous étions dans le même bateau. J’ai rencontré beaucoup de personnes : Afghans, Syriens, Érythréens, Somaliens… Nous étions capturé-es, arrêté-es pas la police. Partout où je suis allé je rencontrais de nouvelles personnes. On prenait des infos, on se posait des questions, on discutait. C’est pour cela que je dis « nous », car nous avons tou-tes souffert, nous étions tou-tes dans la même situation.

Que s’est-il passé après avoir reçu cette lettre en Allemagne ?

On m’a conseillé de parler à un avocat et c’est ce que j’ai fait. Seulement cela m’a coûté cher. J’ai dépensé 400 euros pour les services de l’avocat, qui ne m’a répondu qu’au bout de trois mois. J’étais loin de Francfort mais je faisais régulièrement le trajet. Mon avocat me répondait toujours qu’il fallait attendre. Après 3 mois, j’ai reçu une lettre de mon avocat, que j’ai toujours avec moi. Cette lettre disait « Nous sommes désolé-es mais ton appel a été refusé, nous ne pouvons rien faire ». Alors je n’avais plus d’autre choix, j’ai décidé de quitter l’Allemagne. J’ai décidé de venir en France où ce serait peut-être mieux.

Pourquoi la France. Tu connaissais quelqu’un en France ?

Le but était d’aller en Angleterre. Je connaissais des Afghans en France mais ce qui a motivé mon départ c’était surtout le besoin d’aller dans un pays dans lequel je pouvais communiquer avec les gens. En Allemagne j’étais comme sourd et muet. Quand tu ne comprends pas la langue d’un pays, tout devient ennuyeux. J’ai décidé de ne plus rester dans des endroits dans lesquels je ne comprenais pas la langue. Je parle anglais, alors l’Angleterre au moins allait résoudre ce problème. Je pourrais parler à des gens, leur parler de mes problèmes, de mes émotions, et de tout le reste.

J’étais déçu de tout ce que j’avais vécu en Europe, donc j’ai rejoins Calais pour me rendre en Angleterre.

Je suis arrivé à Calais alors que la jungle partait en fumée. J’ai vu que les tentes brûlaient, qu’il y avait plein de policiers et que les gens se faisaient chasser. Quand j’ai demandé à des Afghans ce qu’il se passait, ils m’ont dit « Tout est fini, il n’y a plus rien ». Ils m’ont dit « tu viens d’arriver ?! T’es un peu en retard ! » (rires). Je me suis dit demandé : « Mais qu’est ce qui ne va pas avec moi ?! »

Là j’ai réalisé que ce serait impossible d’aller à Londres. La police nous a forcé à monter dans les bus. Des gens sont venus et nous ont promis qu’ils nous donneraient des papiers, et que ça serait fait en peu de temps. Ils insistaient pour qu’on reste en France. On leur a fait confiance. On n’a pas résisté, on est montés dans les bus, en acceptant ce contrat.

As-tu vu les personnes qui ont fait ces promesses ?

Oui. Il disait qu’il avait reçu un appel de quelqu’un haut placé. Il y avait beaucoup de gens et j’étais un peu éloigné, donc je n’ai pas pu l’enregistrer ou même bien l’entendre. Nous les Afghan-nes on est plutôt honnêtes, on fait confiance aux autres. C’est notre principale faiblesse et c’est ça qui nous a mis dans cette situation.

Si tu pouvais remonter dans le temps, monterais-tu dans le bus à nouveau ou refuserais-tu ?

Oh non ! Pas du tout ! (rires). Je ne pourrais pas leur faire confiance, cette fois. Sans en avoir les preuves. Je ne serais pas capable de faire confiance au gouvernement français à nouveau.

En faisait cette promesse, ils nous ont donné un faux espoir. On se retrouve coincé-es. Je dépéris ici.

Ils ne comprennent pas, ils ne nous posent même pas de questions sur nos problèmes. Quand quelqu’un arrive dans leur Europe, ils demandent « Pourquoi es-tu venu ? Pourquoi as-tu quitté ton pays ? ». Mais ils ne posent pas la question à celleux qui, déçu-es de l’Europe, décident de retourner dans leur pays. Ils ne demandent pas « Pourquoi repars-tu ? ». Ils ne s’y intéressent pas. Ils sont préoccupés quand tu arrives, mais pas quand tu repars. On en reste déçu-es et sans espoir.

Peux-tu nous parler de la vie quotidienne dans le CAO ?

La vie quotidienne dans le CAO, c’est : s’asseoir, dormir, manger. Manger des spaghettis et des macaronis. C’est tout. J’ai entendu que l’Angleterre donne de l’argent à la France pour aider les réfugiés. Mais ici on reçoit 60 euros pour 50 jours. Que ferais-tu avec 60 euros ?

Mais qui s’en soucie ? Personne. Celleux qui ont demandé l’asile ne reçoivent même pas ce qui leur est dû dans les temps. En Allemagne il y avait plein d’installations pour les réfugié-es, et on recevait l’argent dans les temps, ils répondaient à nos demandes. Là on cuisine toujours des spaghettis, des macaronis. La plupart du temps, c’est mon propre argent que j’utilise.

Personnellement, je n’ai pas besoin de 60 euros. Je veux faire quelque chose par moi-même. Je veux faire des choses, comme ce que je faisais en Afghanistan, comme avoir une entreprise. J’avais un bon train de vie en Afghanistan, j’avais une voiture, tout ça… je ne manquais de rien. Ici je rencontre encore plus de problèmes. Je perds mon temps. Je ne veux pas gaspiller ma vie comme ça. Je veux faire tellement de choses dans l’avenir, qui sait de quoi demain sera fait ? Qui prendra soin de ma famille ? Personne. Je dois faire quelque chose, au moins pour aider ma famille. Ils m’ont aidé, ils ont souffert pour moi, ils souffrent des problèmes qu’on leur a causés, il faut que j’aide en retour.

Version originale

How would you introduce yourself ?

My name is Arman, I’m from Afghanistan and I’m 25 y.o.

What was your life like in Afghanistan ?

Our life was good in Afghanistan. We were living in a village, our family was there. We were living in the capital of Afghanistan and as well in the village. Just me and my brother we were living in Kaboul. We were studying there, we were working there, and our family was living in the village in our personnal home. Later on problems were created for us, because my brother was working with foreigners, with US army. I was busy in Kaboul with my licence, with working. I graduated there. Then I started doing my diploma in english language, I have studied for one year that and then later I started my university in the field of bachelor and business administration. I have studied 5 semesters of that. But in the village we were receiving threat letters saying « your brother should not work with the Americans », they were asking me to help them, to be with them, to join their party, in order to bring them the foreigners and the federals in order to kidnapp them. They were having spied that were asking people about me and my family. We couldn’t go to our village as often as we used to.

Were you living with your brother in Kaboul ?

Yes I was living with my brother. Our life was good. But because of this problem, I had to leave.

How did you get ready for your travel ?

Everything happened suddenly. I just left in one or two days, I had to move.

How did you afford to leave ?

As I told you our life was good, we were having access to money, we were not having problems of money.

Did you need a passport ?

Of course. When I moved from Afghanistan I was having a passport, I got an Iran visa, so I went to Iran by air. In Iran I tore my passeport and threw it away and started walking illegaly towards Turkey.

Had you planned this ?

I had no other options, if I had applied online legally it would have taken so long. As you know the afghan passport is not so valuable, we are not able to get visa of any other countries easily. That was the reason I had to go illegally. So I started going from Afghanistan to Iran, and from Iran to Germany I went illegally.

Along with your brother ?

No no I just came alone. My brother’s story is separate, he’s living now in the US so... I would take too long to tell about his story.

What did you know about Europe before coming ?

Well. I have heard about Europe a lot because our relatives and friends they were living already in Europe, but we were not concerned much about Europe, we were enjoying our life in Afghanistan. But the personnal problems we faced : that was the reason why we had to leave. We were unable to do anything else in there. I was expecting and thinking something else about Europe, that Europe will be like, there will be more facilities for me, I could manage my life in a better way. As I was guessing it wasn’t anything like that. I thought I would be able to do something better for myself in order to help my family as well, in order to take them out of their problems, the problems they were facing because of us. I was expecting to do so. I had to decide very quickly, I had no other options, I couldn’t go in any other countries like Pakistan or nearby countries. That’s why I decided to come to Europe.

From Iran to Turkey we have travelled almost 8 hours by car, to get near to the Turkish border. From that point they took us out from the car and we started walking. We walked for 12 or 13 hours by night in the mountains, through empty places with no humans, with no animals. We walked all night in the mountains then we have reached Turkey. After that we waited for 5 ou 6 hours for a car which took us out of the border. They took us to Istambul where I stayed for 3 or 4 days. Then I decided to go ahead.

How long did you stay in Iran ?

I stayed 7 days. I was sleeping on the road, any places we could manage, we suffered from that.
So we stayed in Istambul for 5 or 6 days. Then we moved toward Bulgaria. We had to walk through the jungle, from Turkey to Bulgaria, 3 nights and 4 days. We were walking in the jungle in order to find the way to get to Bulgaria. (strandzha) We were hiding ourselves. We had to walk in a way nobody could see us. If they had seen us they would have caught us and sent us to the jail or back to Turkey. So we were illegally coming through this jungle to Bulgaria. People who took us through this way told us it would only take 12 hours, but they were telling lies, to get our money. When we were walking in this jungle we would not have any water or anything to eat, 3 days and 4 nights we had suffered like this. We even had to drink water full of dirt in the jungle. Because we had nothing else, no other options. When we arrived in Bulgaria, they put us in a room full of dark, we were not even able to see outside, where we were and what we were doing. We couldn’t go outside freely, police were checking each and everyone and asking for their documents. We were afraid that our fingerprints got taken. We tried our best in order to not give away our fingerprints. But unluckily, the first night police came into that place at 3 am, 40 people were staying in this one room, we were not able to lay on the floor on sleep properly, we would just sleep as we are sitting now. Police came and arrested all of us, put us in a car and took us in a police station. They were forcing us to give our fingerprints. I knew in advance that these fingerprints would make problems for me in the future, in any other country that I want to make asylum in it would make a problem. So I was asking police officier « please don’t ruin my life, I’m not gonna stay here, I’m just crossing your country to go Germany ». The officer looked at me and asked for money. He said « If you give me money I will let you go ». I said « ok, how much do you want ? » He said « As much as you have ». We said « we are refugees, we are not even able to eat, to buy something for us, we just have enough moneny to reach the place that we want ». But they didn’t care at all. They said « give us 500 dollars or you’ll be arrested ». We gave them the money and they let us go. When we were walking again another car comes and asks for money again. We had no more money so they took us by force and kept us 2 nights in the police station. Even in the police station they were not giving us anything to eat. Just one toast per day, and we were not allowed to smoke. They were presurising us. At early morning they were coming and kicking the door, making a shock in our brain. So we were just wondering « What’s happening again, what have we done ? »
Then they took us out of there and took us to the closest camp, it’s like a jail you don’t have the right to move out of your room. There was a building which had 3 floors, each floor was full of 300 or 400 people, only refugees. Syrians, Afghans, Pakistanis...

Did you know what they were expecting from you ?

They just expected us to put our fingerprints in there. Everyday they would ask. At the police station we refused to give them away so they put us in this jail, for 15 days. I don’t know why they were forcing us as we were only crossing their country, but they were presurising us. We have suffered 15 days. Each one should stand in line like prisonners, for 30 or 60 minutes, in order to get a cup of soup, with one bread toast. This was our breakfast, lunch and dinner at the same time. I have lost a lot of weight. They would take us by force, slap us and beat us. We were not allowed to talk with them out loud. They were beating people, putting them in a dark room and gave them punishment separately. They kicked me once in my face. So we decided along with other afghan people that we didn’t have any other choice than giving away our fingerprints, otherwise they will not let us go.

Then they gave us a small ID card, a temporary ID card lasting one month, in order to move around in Sofia. We relaxed for 3 days because we didn’t sleep and eat properly in 15 days. After 23 days we decided to move out of Bulgaria and go to Serbia.

From Bulgaria to Serbia we have walked almost 14 hours, from 4 or 5 am to the next morning, with almost 40 other people with us. We stayed 3 days in Serbia, sleeping in parks. I talked to people in order to take me out of there. There was lot of refugees, all of them wanting to get out of Serbia. Tehre was like facility for us in order to go ouf of there. The serbian people, police, officers, they were not treating us badly, they were good, honnestly. They were not concerned much.

After Serbia I walked to Hungary. We walked a whole night. When police showed up we’d have to stop for 5 or 10 minutes, and then walk again. I even saw a lynx ! A real lynx, in face to face. In the bulgarian jungle I hadn’t seen a lynx but when I arrived in Hungary I saw one 25 or 30 meters away from me. When I saw it I just shouted « it’s moving ! » It was early morning and dark as well so it was not very visible. I turned automatically to the other side and move back (laughter). We were just 4 people separated from other people, because on that time we had decided we were 4 guys we trusted each other a little bit, we were together in Bulgaria and came together. We all walked and ran in order to escape from the lynx. We walked 3 or 4 hours walk away from the place we had seen the lynx, we were very afraid, we had managed to come up to that place and now a lynx will eat us ? (Laughter).

I stayed in Hungary for a week, and I got the same feeling and afraidness I was having in Bulgaria, I didn’t want them to get my fingerprints. I was looking every side if there was a police man, an officer, people... like I was afraid the police would catch me in order to take my fingerprints which would again make a problem for me. So these were the problems that we have suffered in Hungary. When we arrived in Budapest (Hungary) we slept under a bridge in a metro station. We spent a whole week like this. The government of Hungary was not helping us, the people of Hungary, the normal people were bringing food for us. People of Red Cross I think. They were also bringing clothes. I saw pregnant women... I’m a guy, I’m a young guy I don’t care about that but those women that came from this way they were pregnant, they have suffered more than us, I saw people of Hungary they were crying because of this situation, they were getting emotional. I’m happy about Hungary, I was able not to give my fingerprints in there even if I stayed one week, because I look a little bit like french people, I was not spotted by police or anyone after Bulgaria. As soon as refugees are going out police know that « he is a refugee », from his appareance, from his face. I don’t know why, after that no one has asked me for my documents or anything. Before Hungary we were all in the same situation. After one week I decided to leave Hungary, I had a cold coz summer was ending and I was only having a short and a T-shirt with myself and nothing else. We started going to Austria by car, in order to go to Germany. First city we crossed was Passau in Germany. We went to a train station, I bought a train ticket to Munchen. There we met with Aphgan people, they honoured us, invited us in their home because they understood the conditions we had suffered, they know these problems, so they helped us, offered us a shower and food. We stayed one or two nights with them then we decided to go to Frankfurt, coz one of my friend is living in Frankfurt and recommanded me to come there, that he would help me. First when I was coming, during this whole way, I was thinking that I would go to Sweden, coz one of our relatives is living there, but when they were taking my fingerprints in Bulgaria, I found out that Sweden would not finally forget my fingerprints, I knew that. Because when we were in the bulgarian camp I saw people who were deported from Sweden to Bulgaria. The time we were in the jail we were asking each and everyone « when do you come from ? », so these things were getting clear for me. People were saying « Germany is good, people are not getting deported, maybe your fingerprints will be forgotten ». So I decided to go to Frankfurt and ask for asylum there. For 45 days I stayed in Giessen camp, next to Frankfurt, there’s a big american camp, I was in that camp for 45 days, like they were really big tants, full of refugees, like in this camp approximately 6.000 people were living. When we entered in that camp we saw that there was no place, no room in order to stay. Only big tants but in ech tant maybe 200 or 300 people. And there was more than a hundred tants. So we only stayed 45 days.

Why didn’t you stay at your friend’s place ?

I had to stay in the camp in order to make my asylum request. At least we had food, we were feeling happy to get freed of this problem that we were suffering all this way. The behaviour of german policemen was good with us, it was not bad. When I arrived in Germany it was not yet the time of « welcome », like the way it has been afterwards in the face of the refugees in 2015. You are the witnesses of that, last year, when many people were coming and people were welcoming them in Germany. I had arrived before that welcome in Germany. I realised when I was in the camp that people were arriving more and more, I was like what’s going on. I was checking the news : Germany had opened the way. I saw people who had arrived with only 200 dollars from Afghanistan. I was just shocked : I have spent 15 000 dollars !
After 45 days they shifted us to another city and they gave us a room. It was like an accomodation. I spent 16 months. After 8 months they took my fingerprints in Germany. At that time that I have came to Germany, they were not focusing on Afghan people, they was a lot of Syrian refugees, they were focusing and helping them a lot, more than us. We were the witnesses, we knew that they were helping them a lot and give them morte opportunity than us. So whenever we were going to a social worker or ask what is going to happen next, they were just having one answer : you’re afghan ? « Your future is not clear, just wait, you will be deporter, you will be not, it’s not clear. » We had to wait 8 months for them to take our fingerprints.
Because you wanted to give your fingerprints ?
Yes, because I had applied for asylum in Germany. After 8 months I had a short interview, I told them about the same things I’m telling you now. I told them the truth, I told them I gave my fingerprints to Bulgaria but I haven’t seeked asylum in there, I just came here to make asylum here. They took my fingerprints and said I had to wait for a letter. After one or two months, I received this letter, saying I was Dublinised and had to be deported back to Bulgaria. So, after 8 months they took my fingerprints, and then it took 2 more months to have the results. During 4 months after that I was moving up to lawyers, talking to each and everyong about what should I do, I don’t wanna come back to Bulgaria.

You always say « we », « we did this, we did that ». Did you leaev Afghanistan alone, did you meet people on your road ? Can you tell us a bit about the solidarity between you and otehr refugees ?

I left Afghanistan alone, there was no one else wanting to come with me, but while I left Afghanistan I was not alone during this way, we were like 20 or 30 people going together in order to reach our aim. Our aim and goal was one, we were in the same boat. I have seen lot of people Afghans, Syrians, Eritreans, Somalians... We were captured, arrested by the police, each and everywhere we were meeting with new people, we were getting informations, we were asking, we were talking. That’s why I am saying « we », because we all suffered, we were in the same situation. This is the reason.

So after you received this letter in Germany what happened ?

Afghan people living in the accomodation suggested me to talk to a lawyer in order to stay here and not be deported. Here when you need a lawyer, government gives you one in order to help you or to solve your problems. But I spent my own money in Germany in order to have a lawyer. I asked him to make appeal for me in order to not be sent back to Bulgaria. He said « ok let me make appeak, I will do this I will do that », I said « ok », made a payment for him, 400 euros, he said « wait for it you will receive a letter ». I have waited 3 months just to get an answer from my lawyer. Everytime I had to go from the city I was to Frankfurt (1h30 by train) in order to ask the lawyer what happened to my case, he would always say « just wait ». I went there 2 or 3 times a month. After 3 months I have received a letter from my lawyer, I have still this letter with myself. It was saying « Sorry, your appeal has been denied, we cannot do anything else ». So I was not having any other choice so I decided I should leave Germany. I decided to come to France, so maybe it will be better.

Why France ? Did you know anyone in France ?

Well, in France I knew few afghans, in Strasbourg. They were suggesting me « come to France it will be good for you ». So that’s why I left Germany and came toward France. But at that time I was not willing to stay in France, because the problem for me wat the language. The same problem I was having in Germany : I was like dumb and deaf. I don’t understand what they are saying. When you don’t understand everything gets boring, and I’m stuck in this problem. I was deciding to not stay anymore in a place where the language is different. I can speak english, so in England at least I could solve my problems, I could speak to someone, tell my problems and emotions and everything. So I decided to go to London, or England. So I came to Calais from Germany, coz I got disappointed a lot from these things that I have faced in Europe so I decided to go to London, at least I could work there, at least I could talk with people there and understand more, have more opportunities. That’s why I went to Calais.

It was at the end of october, it was the day that the jungle was getting burnt, it was the last days of Calais. When I arrived they were hunting humans here I was like « what’s happening, oh my god wherever I’m going nothing good happens with me ». When I arrived to Calais I saw every tants getting burnt down, so much police was there, I was asking to afghan people there « what’s going on ? » they said « everything has gone nothing remains » they asked « you came now ? » I said yes, « you are late » (laughter).
When I was in Calais I realised it wouldn’t be possible to go to London, they wouldn’t let us go to London, police was forcing us into the buses, people came and promise us they’ll give us documents, that the work bill be done soon. They were presurising us to stay in France. We trusted them and accepted their promises. We didn’t disturb police or anything, we just got into the buses, we accepted the contract.

Did you see the person who made those promises ?

Yes, he was saying he had received a call from someone on the top... There were many people and I was a little bit far from him, so I wasn’t able to make a record or hear him very well. We afghan people are like straightforward, we trust people, that’s our main weakness and it took us to this situation.

If you could timetravel, would you get into this bus again or would you refuse ?
Oh no, no at all (laughter). I cannot trust this time. Unless I have proofs, I won’t be able to trust the french government again.

So you would have stayed in Calais and try to go to London like you had planned ?

Yes. They made a promise, they put a hope in our heart. That was the reason why we left Calais and came here. We were having a hope and now we are realising things are getting changed, so we are losing our hope again, we are helpless to do anything, we don’t know what will happen. We are stuck. I am wasting my time here.

They don’t understand, they’re not asking about my problems. When someone’s coming to their Europe they are asking « why did you come, why did you leave your country ? » but those who are going back, those who get disappointed from Europe , they’re not asking « why are you going back to deport yourself ? » They are not concerned with it. When you’re entering they are concern, but when you’re going they’re not anymore. It makes us disappointed and hopeless.

Can you tell us a bit about your daily life in CAO ?

Daily life in CAO is just : sit, sleep and eat, eat spaghetti and macaroni, that’s it. I heard that England gives France some money in order to help refugees. But, in here we are getting 60 euros for 50 days, what would you do with 60 euros ? But who cares ? No one. Those who have asked for asylum are not getting their monthly payment on time. In Germany they had so much facilities for refugees, and they would give the money at the exact date, they would fulfill us with everything. We are alkways cooking spaghettis, macaronis, and most of the time I spend my own money.
Personnaly, I don’t need the 60 euros, I want to do something by myself, I want to do as I was doing in Afghanistan, like having a trading company. The 60 euros is nothing for me, I was having a good life in there, I had a car and anything, I was not a lack of anything in Afghanistan. Now here I am facing more problems. My time is going to be wasted. I don’t want to waste my life like this. I need to do so much things in my future, who knows what will arrive tomorrow, who will care about my family ? No one. If I’m alive, I can do it, but if i’m not alive, no one will know about when they be dead. I have to do something at least that could help my family, they have helped me, they have suffered a lot for me, so I just have to do the same for them.

Plus d’infos sur le collectif Solidarité migrant.es ici :
https://www.facebook.com/groups/290475794687194/?fref=ts